First Response with Bob Plaschke, Episode 33: Sheriff Bob Jonsen - Leading Santa Clara County Through Crisis And Change

A sheriff’s office isn’t just patrol cars and 911 calls. It’s jails, courts, hospital security, transportation, staffing shortages, and a relentless 24/7 mission that never pauses. We sit down with Santa Clara County Sheriff Bob Jonsen to talk about what modern public safety leadership really looks like in the middle of Silicon Valley, from the scale of his agency to the choices that shape morale and community trust.

Starting with his path from the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department to leading Menlo Park and Palo Alto, we discuss how policing changes when you go from a massive system to a smaller city with fewer resources but the same urgent calls. Then we get blunt about politics: why he decided to run for elected sheriff during a period of controversy, what campaigning feels like for a career law enforcement professional, and why fundraising can create discomfort even when you’re determined to stay above reproach.

From there, we dig into corrections and the part of public safety most people never want to see. We close with what Sheriff Jonsen is best known for nationally: officer health and wellness, including mindfulness, compassion training, and a music plus neuroscience approach designed to reduce stress and improve sleep without stigma.

If you care about policing, jail reform, officer wellness, or what it takes to run a half-billion-dollar public safety organization, hit subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

https://www.pepperball.com

Transcript

Guest: Sheriff Bob Jonsen

Host: Bob Plaschke

 Bob Plaschke  [0:00]

The front line of policing is loud, but the voices behind it, you know, they're a lot louder and I think, frankly, a lot more interesting. Hi, I'm Bob Plaschke, and this is First Response. This is the number one podcast that takes you behind the badge and uncovers real stories and experiences of first responders from all walks of life and the topics that shape public safety today. If you're curious about the guy or the gal behind the hero, and they are indeed truly heroes, and the topics that they care about, take a listen. This is kind of your front row seat to hearing some of the really interesting voices out there and more importantly the heroes. This podcast is sponsored by PepperBall, where I have the honor to serve as CEO. PepperBall creates non-lethal alternatives to firearms that law enforcement can use to keep themselves and the public safe. Well, today, folks, this is a special day for me personally. I live in Silicon Valley, in San Mateo County, which is adjacent to Santa Clara County. So I am a stone's throw away from Santa Clara, and in fact I spend a lot of my time there personally, and we have the sheriff of Santa Clara County on today as our guest, Sheriff Bob Jonsen. And Sheriff, it's an honor and a privilege to have you here this morning. Your resume and pedigree is fantastic, starting all the way in Los Angeles with the county sheriff's department working your way up and then coming up here to run municipal departments in Menlo Park, where I mentioned before we started that I live right next to, in Palo Alto.

Bob Plaschke  [1:55]

You now run one of the largest, most well-known and recognized sheriff's agencies in the country. Thank you so much for coming on. My first question is: Was it a big adjustment moving from Los Angeles to Silicon Valley? That's quite a difference for those who don't know much about California.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [2:21]

Yeah, well, first of all, Bob, it's a privilege to be on here. And yes, I'm smiling, and your listeners won't be able to see that, but I'm smiling to that question because yeah, it was quite the transition. Coming from the largest sheriff's department in the world, where I spent 27 years, to taking over what I would consider a small municipality at Menlo Park was quite an adjustment. And I will say at first I had no idea how that would go and if I'd be able to transition or really utilize some of the skills I had developed in Los Angeles and apply them in a city like Menlo Park. But I had a phenomenal run there, was chief there for five years and really enjoyed it and found that the men and women, whether in a large agency or a small agency, are equally committed to serving their communities. So it's been a fun ride. I've really enjoyed my career, and it's been 40 years now. It started in 1986, and you know, I made a short move from Menlo Park to taking over Palo Alto, where I was just before becoming sheriff here in Santa Clara County.

Bob Plaschke  [3:31]

For those who may not know, Menlo Park and Palo Alto are interesting because they sit in the heart of Silicon Valley and the technology sector. Stanford University is based in Palo Alto. But there are also areas in both Menlo Park and Palo Alto that are economically different and disadvantaged. A large highway intersects these different communities, so there is considerable diversity in that context. I imagine you had officers going from one side to the other with a significant change in scenery. Was that interesting for you to see, or did you encounter a lot of that in Los Angeles as well?

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [4:18]

Well, yeah, I mean it's very interesting and very accurate. In Menlo Park, what I found fascinating was that when I transitioned up there, I wasn't really expecting that degree of neighborhood diversity because of the home values and you know the proximity with Facebook being their major corporate presence there. I wasn't sure how the economic status was going to be, but to your point, there were definitely neighborhoods that were more challenged than others and had pretty significant issues going on. And those were the areas that, from a police chief standpoint, we had to be very creative because we just didn't have the resources Los Angeles had. And part of my career in Los Angeles was running a major crime fighting initiative in the Antelope Valley. And the reason I bring that up is just because I really wanted to apply some of those strategies to Menlo Park to address their community concerns. And we were able to do it, but we had to do it differently. And I found that it worked very well. Again, credit goes to the men and women of that agency. But to your comment, yes, there were times because we just didn't have the resources. There would only be a few officers out there that would have to traverse that entire city from the north end to the south end, east and west. And even though it's small, there are some traffic issues which could delay some response time. But we worked it all out at the end of the day.

Bob Plaschke  [5:47]

Well, this transitions to you becoming sheriff. Working in a sheriff's organization is a lot different than actually running for sheriff. What was the background that compelled you to actually run for public office?

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [6:05]

Yeah, now I'm actually laughing because you're a hundred percent accurate on that. It's one thing to be appointed as a police chief or to run a command in a sheriff's structure, which I did at Lancaster Station in Los Angeles. It's another thing to actually be the sheriff. What prompted it up here was not ambition. I was very content being the chief in Palo Alto at the time. And I had gone there from Menlo Park, as I mentioned, in 2018 and was really enjoying that. It was a great partnership. And to be honest with you, I thought that would be my last command. You know, I'm turning 64 this year. So at the time, I was in my late 50s at Palo Alto, and I'll just be honest: if there hadn't been the controversy and scandals that were surrounding that organization, the Santa Clara Sheriff's Office at the time, I didn't have any interest or desire to take over another agency. But by 2021 and 2022, it was becoming clear that my predecessor was not going to run again or most likely wouldn't run again. The question came, well, who will and who can? And it just, you know, when everybody started looking around the room, it did make sense. I had a very strong background in a sheriff's organization from Los Angeles. I understood the politics from my time in Menlo Park, Palo Alto, you know, and I understood how it should be run, in my opinion. So I did. I threw my name in the hat. I was clearly the underdog, joined the race late, but, you know, things turned out, and I've been very much enjoying it over the last three and a half years. Fortunately—and my fingers are definitely crossed—I'm extremely happy that I ran unopposed. So I'm locked into this for several more years and excited to be part of that organization.

Bob Plaschke  [8:06]

You know, I've always thought about the notion of running for public office because it's the ultimate definition of service. Certainly, as a police officer, you're serving your community. Running for public office almost seems like taking it to the next level. Was it interesting to go out, shake hands and ask for people's votes? That's not typically what police officers do.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [8:35]

You keep making me laugh because everything you're saying about campaigning is true. No disrespect to anybody who's ever done it, but I actually think you should seek psychological help before jumping into a political race. It was not what I expected, it was excruciating. Yes, to your comment. I love the interaction, going out, meeting people, introducing myself. But you know, politics has gotten a little different in the last decade, and it's not as pretty and respectful as it should be, in my opinion. And it can get a little nasty. What I didn't take into account was now my role was going to impact and affect my entire family structure because people would be looking at every aspect of my life. And I will say this, you know, it's interesting because of my current role, my background, I'm pretty sure when it comes to politics, there's very few that can say they've had several comprehensive law enforcement background checks done. And I had already done three. So I felt good about that part of it. But the reality is that campaigning and asking for money—fundraising—was excruciating because that is not something we normally do in law enforcement. And so the fundraising, I have to acknowledge, was probably, well, I would say in history, I was probably the worst fundraiser that's ever run for political office. My campaign team kept telling me, you got to raise money, and I'm all, I can't do it. I can't ask. So I'm happy I ran unopposed this time around because I was not looking forward to having to do all that again.

Bob Plaschke  [10:15]

Well, that's a testament to what you've been able to accomplish at Santa Clara that you would run unopposed, right? That no one would step up. I'm glad that you did, and I'm glad you didn't have to raise money because there is a perception of quid pro quo, and that's the last thing a police officer wants to ever do, right? You don't want to, in effect, take money and you know, like, okay, what's on the other side of that donation, you know, above and beyond people wanting to see you succeed. So I know it's difficult. I know I talk to a lot of sheriffs in that context, and, to your point, it is the thing they absolutely hate. Because you know, I mean, being a police officer or a career officer sworn to the Constitution, you know, you have to stay above the fray and you have to stay above reproach. And that's the one thing that can unintentionally walk you into dangerous waters. So I'm glad for you that you didn't have to do it.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [11:17]

Well, and so was I. And you know, it's interesting, and one of the things I've always been able to fall back on, because to your point, it happens, right? Somebody will say, hey, or they'll donate, and then I've had this happen. They'll come back and they'll ask for something that is just flat out inappropriate. And I'll give you an example. We'll keep it super simple, but it's not uncommon for people to call up and say, hey, my son, my daughter or I got a speeding ticket. Can you help? And for me, it's super easy because I made my own son go to traffic school and he had asked if I could help. I said, “No. Were you speeding?” He acknowledged that he was. Then I said, “All right, take accountability for it.” So, you know, if I made my own son go to traffic school, they can have their son or daughter go to traffic school as well.

Bob Plaschke  [12:02]

Absolutely. Well, let's talk about Santa Clara itself.

Bob Plaschke  [12:06]

I don't think many people know much about it. It sits in the heart of Silicon Valley. It is where large Silicon Valley companies like Cisco and Google are located. Tell us about the size, scope and challenges. Just kind of give us a bit of a snapshot of the challenge from a policing perspective.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [12:30]

Yeah, it's a great county in my opinion, one of the best, to your earlier point. You know, because of everything that's going on, it's got a great economic engine, even though we're going through some challenging times. But it's a big county, and its population is approximately 2 million. Geographically, it's almost the size of the Antelope Valley where I worked in Los Angeles, encompassing well over 600 square miles. Our organization has close to 1,800 employees between sworn personnel and professional staff. We have a lot going on between departments, and this is where it differs between a municipality, and sometimes the general public doesn't understand the nuances. But when I was a police chief, all I had to do was provide law enforcement services for that particular city. As a sheriff and the sheriff's organization, the mission is far broader. We not only provide law enforcement services, we oversee the county jail, we provide security for our courts, our transportation system, our hospitals. So we have a lot going on. Every day there is something that will keep you busy. But again, I am just super happy that it's filled with committed members and we get the job done every day. And this year in particular, as you know, was probably one of our more challenging years for staffing and support because we were the first county to host both the Super Bowl and World Cup events in the same calendar year. So it's been a huge lift to provide and make sure our community stays safe for the first six months of the year.

Bob Plaschke  [14:15]

The sheriff's office is just a stone's throw away from Levi Stadium and from San Jose International Airport and downtown San Jose. There's also a professional soccer stadium down the street. Santa Clara University is another stone's throw away. So you do have a very diverse ecosystem of different types of folks coming in and out of the county. And you guys do a great job. We don't normally talk about PepperBall on the podcast, but we do sell to and support the Santa Clara County agency. They do a fantastic job. With this kind of scope, how big is your budget? I think people are gonna be a bit surprised by the size, but what is your annual budget?

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [15:14]

Yeah, every year it's been very consistent, usually right around $480 million to nearly $500 million. It takes a lot of money to run an organization of this size. Most people would say, well, half a billion dollars is a tremendous amount of money. But you got to remember we operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week, every day of the year. There are no breaks. So that comes with a cost. But again, I think we do a phenomenal job. You know, the contract cities we've served for over 70 years have been genuinely very pleased with our service. You know, we have a lot of work going on in the jails, but again, we get through each day and we keep moving forward. And I'm happy because I think morale has definitely increased over the last several years. We've done a lot of very creative initiatives to make sure our workforce stays healthy and well. So we'll be there today, tomorrow and the next day.

Bob Plaschke  [16:21]

I know this, but my friends and people I deal with in business don't have any sense of size and scope of these agencies, right? They call 911 and someone shows up and they're willing to pay the taxes that make that possible. But these are very large, sophisticated operations. You're the CEO, in effect, of a half a billion dollar company. You're judged on law and order, certainly, but there are many factors in what you would call success, including how the community views the use of their taxpayer dollars. By the way, I agree that Santa Clara County has done a great job and does have a great reputation.

Bob Plaschke  [17:21]

I want to talk about the part of the county that most people don't ever want to see but that consumes a lot of those dollars, and that is the corrections facilities. How many inmates or folks do you have in the facility in Santa Clara?

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [17:38]

Yeah, it's been very consistent since I've been sheriff over the last three and a half years. It ranges on any given day between 2,800 and 3,200. Prior to the pandemic, they were hovering closer to 4,000 inmates a day. But through a lot of creative resources and, you know, pretrial services, they've been able to lower that number and keep it down to right around that 3,000 mark. And that's where it's been, like I said, very consistently over the last three and a half years while I've been sheriff.

Bob Plaschke  [18:12]

You know, I mentioned before to you, sheriff, before we started that I had just taken a tour of the Men's Central Jail in Los Angeles, where I think you actually served when you first started years and years ago. And, you know, it's a very big jail. I think they had 4,000 inmates. And you know, I have to say it was not, you know, it was sobering, I think is the best way of saying it. The sights and smells make it a difficult place to walk through. Certainly, you do not want to end up in that facility because of bad life choices. But I felt for the people who have to manage those corrections facilities. It cannot be easy to live and work in that environment.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [19:07]

It's definitely not. And you know, it's interesting because that conversation, that environment has really been front and center. In Santa Clara, our jails are approaching the end of their useful life. And we've been in conversations of building a new facility of some sort. But as you experienced down there with Men's Central Jail, you know, that's been around for decades. And again, you go in, it's dark, there are very few windows, it's concrete, it's damp, it's cold, you know, and it's not the best living environment. And to manage that, you also have to remember it is challenging not only for the people who are incarcerated there; it also takes its toll on the men and women that serve there every day because they're spending a vast portion of their day, 10 to 12 hours, if not more, inside that facility as well. So as a leader, as a manager, it's incumbent on you to do everything you can to not only make that environment more livable for the people that are housed there, giving them opportunities, programs, access to tools, but also making sure the workforce's well-being remains as strong as possible. And that's really, in my opinion, paramount for any leader in law enforcement today. First and foremost, it means taking care of your people so they can continue to take care of those they serve.

Bob Plaschke  [20:32]

No, for sure. And I think that's what struck me. I mean, you had deputies, to your point, in these dark environments with a lot of noise. It was the opposite of a pleasant work environment. I know that has to wear on people. And we're going to talk about health and wellness in a couple of minutes, but before we get there, what does it cost to build a new corrections facility? That must be hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [21:06]

Yeah, I would say more. It is really starting to get very expensive. And the reason it's becoming astronomically expensive is that it's not just a housing facility. Most people think of a jail as just a collection of cells. Well, there's far more to it today. You have to have program space, you have to have exercise space, you have to have healthcare space, you have to have medical facilities within it. So basically, they are no longer just housing facilities; they are facilities with built-in medical care, dental care, programming. So they are all-inclusive, and that's where the costs really start to rise. Given the earlier point about the environment, they're no longer building them as concrete boxes, nor should they. They're building them so the environment is livable, meaning the lighting, the conditions are not so cumbersome that they start to deteriorate the mental health of those that are inside those buildings.

Bob Plaschke  [22:11]

Is that something that is on your to-do list? I didn't warn you about the question, but yeah, is that on your to-do list to try to get funding for a new corrections facility?

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [22:20]

No, absolutely. It was something that almost got approved before I came in, but without question, before the end of my second term, I would be ecstatic and extremely happy if we could get the Board of Supervisors to approve a new facility. Again, everybody, including those who are incarcerated, deserves a better living environment.

Bob Plaschke  [22:41]

For sure. No, and that was my takeaway. It's interesting. TV shows that try to portray policing, they do it in ways that are overly dramatic. They show officers drawing their sidearms far more often than it happens in reality, where there is much more interaction. And when they show incarceration, they don't really do it justice. I think it would be almost too sobering a picture for TV, frankly. I don't think the public really has a good sense. As a taxpayer, I'd be a hundred percent supportive of new corrections facilities because you know, to your point, they were built at a time and in a place different than where we are today. And we need a new approach to how the people who spend time there should experience it, and the people who manage those facilities, because it's unfair to both as it exists today, not to put words in your mouth.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [24:01]

No, but you're correct. And the emphasis right now is not on punishment, but on rehabilitation. But to do rehabilitation, you need the space to actually offer programs that bring value to those individuals' lives and that they can use when they reenter society. So again, fingers crossed, I'm hopeful that we'll get one accomplished and approved for Santa Clara County. In San Mateo, you know you have a relatively new jail. It's a beautiful facility. If you ever have an opportunity, go by there and take a tour there because I think you'll see something dramatically different from what you experienced down in Los Angeles.

Bob Plaschke  [24:39]

Oh, that's a good point, by the way. You're right, because I live in San Mateo and have been to the police agency and other facilities, which are beautiful. I have not actually been to a corrections facility, but I will put that on my to-do list. That's a good idea, because I'd love to see what a more recently built one looks like in the context of trying to solve some of the challenges that you outlined. Yeah.

Bob Plaschke  [25:04]

Well, let's turn the rest of the discussion to officer health and wellness. It's a topic that I am passionate about, and I know you are. One reason we're excited to have you on the podcast is that you are one of the leading national voices on that topic. You're chairing the California State Sheriffs' Association Wellness Committee, and I believe you've done work at Stanford on compassion cultivation training. Given your role as a leader and your focus on employees, it makes sense that you would be passionate about this. How did you start your journey? What are you doing today? What are you focused on, and what excites you?

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [25:53]

Yeah, great question. I mean, my journey, and it's actually something I've been outlining and talking quite a bit about, because my journey up until 2015 was just “suck it up.” You know, and that led to high blood pressure, sleep deprivation, a lot of other things that went on during those 27 years up to that point or so. But in 2015, actually, by chance, the mayor of Menlo Park actually asked if I had ever heard of mindfulness. And at the time, it was not something being discussed in law enforcement. But to her credit, I ended up looking into it, going to a retreat, seeing the value of mindfulness for addressing some of the issues facing our profession. Then I had to find a way to integrate it into our profession. So I took a deep dive, working with UCLA and Stanford to develop compassion cultivation training. That is now POST-certified and offered throughout the state. It's called Courageous Heart through the Compassion Institute—Courageous Heart: The Human Behind the Badge. And that has been very successful, and that has led into other endeavors that we've been doing. One effort I mentioned before we started the podcast was a partnership not only with California sheriffs, but the Major County Sheriffs of America, as well as Newcom that pairs music and neuroscience to really help officers, deputies, law enforcement personnel with stress mitigation and better-quality sleep. Because this profession is deprived of sleep, and it leads to all sorts of physical and psychological issues that we really need to start taking on head on.

Bob Plaschke  [27:42]

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I've interviewed a number of folks who talked about some of their mental challenges, and they talked about this vicious cycle of an incident, of the impact of the incident, and additional overtime because of understaffing. That led to being overly tired, not getting good sleep, and then just a an exacerbation of the mental challenges that officers face by definition.

Bob Plaschke  [28:20]

So tell us more. Tell the listeners more about Newcom and how it works.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [28:24]

Yeah, I think I'm super excited about this partnership. Very grateful to Newcom. I'll share a link to the platform. It's something that's free to any law enforcement agency. The partnership started while I had been working on a book, and then I crafted songs from each of those chapters dealing with stress, the profession, the journey, the outcome, sleep deprivation. Each chapter talks about one of our more significant issues facing this profession. Well, the music kind of started to take off, Eight songs in particular—one on suicide, one on drinking, one on stress and one on hypervigilance—became the core to this roll-call listening campaign that's being used throughout agencies, ourselves included, and it is as simple as playing a song, and then it is paired with the Newcom platform that really gives them the opportunity to listen to a sound wave that helps regulate brainwave activity for stress mitigation and enhanced sleep. They did a phenomenal job pairing the songs and music with one of their platforms. And I think it's something that every officer could use or at least explore. The beauty is that I've written about wellness for years. Some people listen, some people read it, but for some reason this music is resonating in a way that's not threatening. People could just listen to the song, listen to the content, the words, the meaning, and say, you know what? That particular song may not mean anything to me, but I know people whom it does affect. And we've had some really good conversations at some of our briefings stemming from just playing the song and then opening it up for that dialogue to occur.

Bob Plaschke  [30:22]

Oh, that's fantastic. Oh, that's absolutely fantastic. And I think through my own life, there are songs that, for whatever reason, reinforce positive messages and kind of give me hope and courage to fight through what I have to fight through as a human. I can easily see how that works very well. And to your point, it steps away from the words mental health and do you need help and are you okay? Those are all great things to ask, but to a police officer, they can be challenging, they can be words that would put them on the defensive. So the music I can see as a very non-confrontational, you know, safe space in which they can then maybe be more open to share their issues.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [31:17]

No. There are four albums, actually, and they're all available on social media platforms. But for the roll-call program, we took eight of those songs and made them specific to the Newcom partnership. They can play them at any time in a briefing, because again, it's designed to be done in roll calls. They can play the song, and later utilize the platform from Newcom. They can do that. Usually, it is in the evening before bed. They'll turn it on, listen to it, and it's just simple. You just listen to the sound wave. But it's really interesting because two of the songs we found already really resonate with the vast majority of the deputies and officers who have been using it for a couple of years. One is called The Toll, which talks about the cumulative stress. And we use the image of a pebble for every incident that you take on and carry. And by the time, you know, a couple of years in, you're carrying thousands of stones, thousands of pebbles, which you don't even realize until they're too heavy to carry anymore. The other one that's really been powerful is called End of Watch. And that has to do with the number of officers that have died by suicide or been killed in the line of duty. And that's happening far too often. So they're not always the most feel-good songs, but the messages are definitely connecting. And again, to your earlier comment, it's giving people the opportunity to say, you know what, that meant something to me, and let's talk about it. And it's that open dialogue where we're finding tremendous value because these are topics that we generally don't talk about. We just kind of take it in and realize it's part of the job, but it doesn't mean that we have to bear the weight alone.

Bob Plaschke  [33:10]

I couldn't agree more. PepperBall has a training corps of about 40 trainers, and some of them are retired, some of them are still active. And when they get together, you know, there's a lot of camaraderie, but there are times when they come together and talk about some of the mental challenges they collectively face. And it's refreshing for me to hear people be more willing to surface those issues. I think maybe 10, 20, 30 years ago that would never have been the case.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [33:43]

I agree 100 percent.

Bob Plaschke  [33:45]

The fact that you can do this at roll call, even if you don't talk about it, you're allowing it to be discussed. You're not merely legitimizing it; you're encouraging that kind of conversation, whether it happens in the group in the conference room or it happens in the car with their partner as they drive off and do their work. I think it's fantastic. Sheriff, you already know these statistics, but I say them in case the person listening hasn't heard me say them before. As many officers die by suicide each year as die in the line of duty. It's roughly about the same, 1,500 or so. Police officers have a life expectancy of, I think, 63 or 64 years. It's one of the shortest life expectancies of any profession in the United States, because of what happens on the job and what happens after, to your point, in terms of the mental toll. So the last statistic I always throw out is that an average person like me will go through three, four or five traumatic events in their life, a car accident, a divorce, a death of a sibling or a child. Officers go through three or four, at least three or four of those traumatic incidents every year, if not more. And so those pebbles, I think it's a great analogy, those pebbles become huge boulders after 20 or 30 years. How has this affected you personally? This must be cathartic for you, because you have your own share of pebbles, right? Do you have your own share of boulders from all the incidents you've personally gone through? Has this been cathartic for you?

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [35:40]

It has been very cathartic. I have to say, you know, writing the book, putting it on paper, was very beneficial for me. I'm very transparent on some of those incidents, what they did to me, how it impacted me, how I dealt with it, good or bad, usually bad back in the earlier days. But then it's really gotten to the point where I've realized through mindfulness, compassion training, Newcom technology, we don't have to, like I said earlier, we don't have to live our lives that way. We can do this job and we can remain healthy and well, but it takes individual effort. And I think the men and women of this profession have to start prioritizing their own well-being so they can be there and serve others. So it's been a great journey for me. I have no complaints, but a lot of people say they've learned more about me through the music. Even my sister has learned more about me and my work through my songs and this music than through conversations because that's how closed off we are. We don't even share these details with those closest to us. Again, that needs to change as well. And so, you know, I know it's working and it's catching on because even on YouTube, we created videos for many of those songs. They aren't professional-grade, but they're good, in my opinion. But we've had in the first 90 days close to 6,000 views already of these particular videos on the YouTube channel. So we know people are looking at them outside a briefing as well, which is a good thing. Whatever works, whether it's listening, talking, or watching, I don't care as long as they do something with the material to the betterment of their own well-being.

Bob Plaschke  [37:36]

That's fantastic. In the podcast, I'll include the links to those YouTube channels as well as information about the roll-call program and the fact that it's free for every agency. That is a very productive use of your time to help the broader policing community. So thank you, Sheriff. Unfortunately, we're well past our time. I thoroughly enjoyed this and learned a great deal from it. I have one last question. We make a small donation in your name to a charity. Which charity can we donate to?

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [38:20]

Well, I would have to say, since my mom passed away at a young age from cancer, and we have several people within our own workforce dealing with that right now. I would say I would love a donation to one of the cancer foundations. And I'll leave that to you, Bob. And if you want, I can send you a link later on, you know, a particular one. But anything to do with cancer prevention, I would really appreciate.

Bob Plaschke  [38:47]

Sheriff, thank you so much for spending the time with us. It was great to meet you, and it makes me feel even better about living where I do, knowing that you and your team are there to protect me, my family, our friends and our community—and you're also investing heavily in terms of taking care of your own folks, which I think has to be the top priority. So thank you for taking the time with us.

Sheriff Bob Jonsen  [39:19]

Well, thank you, Bob. Really appreciate the opportunity.

Bob Plaschke  [39:23]

Well, folks, this was a fascinating discussion. Meeting someone who had no interest in being an elected official, who was going to happily retire as a police chief but stepped into this leadership role and is now making the most of it, is a reminder of all of the good people that are in policing. And there are many very good people that in their own way step into those roles and do more for their communities. I thought it was interesting to hear the sheriff's perspective about a new corrections facility. In addition to mental health, this will be a new issue that I'll be more actively speaking on because it's necessary. None of us want to go into those facilities because you can imagine what it feels like. No one deserves to live in that space, and no one deserves to work in that space. And we do have the ability as a community and as a country to address that. We just need to do it. It's not easy, but we need to do it. Finally, this is yet another way to approach wellness. We've had multiple speakers talk about their approaches to mental health and wellness for the police community. What an interesting way of doing this through music as a way to connect with folks. So, everyone, thanks so much for listening. We'll be back soon with another exciting episode of First Response, the leading podcast talking about the people behind the badge. Thanks again to PepperBall, where I am privileged to serve as CEO, for sponsoring this and making it possible. So, everyone be safe out there and have a great day.