First Response with PepperBall CEO Bob Plaschke
"First Response," is an interview series hosted by PepperBall CEO Bob Plaschke. This series aims to shine a spotlight on the thought leaders within the public safety industry and provide a platform for these individuals to share their experiences, insights, and the valuable lessons they've learned through their careers in law enforcement.
First Response with PepperBall CEO Bob Plaschke
First Response with Bob Plaschke Episode 14 - Deputy Director of Public Safety Brad Petersen, Cottage Grove, MN: Mental Health Challenges in an "Average" Police Force
The mental health challenges facing police officers in America's suburban departments deserve just as much attention as those in major metropolitan forces. Deputy Director of Public Safety, Brad Petersen of Minnesota's Cottage Grove Police Department pulls back the curtain on what he describes as an "average" American police agency - not too urban, not too rural, with officers handling just 5-10 calls per shift.
In these relatively safe communities, officers face a unique psychological challenge: maintaining vigilance without succumbing to complacency. "Because our community is so safe, it's easy to get lulled into a false sense of security where we drop our guard and fail to recognize potential dangers," Peterson explains. This balancing act creates its own form of stress that compounds the universal challenges officers face.
The statistics are sobering. While the average American experiences 4-7 traumatic incidents in their lifetime, police officers encounter 200-400 over a 20-year career. This cumulative trauma contributes to suicide rates among retired officers that are twice the national average. Cottage Grove has responded with a comprehensive wellness program including mental health training, counseling, peer support, canine therapy, and chaplain services.
Today's officers also navigate increasingly complex use-of-force situations and societal issues beyond traditional law enforcement. When asked what he wishes the public understood about policing, Peterson's answer was simple but profound: "Officers are humans and we're not perfect. We're trying to do the best we can... a little grace and forgiveness would be awesome."
Recorded during National Police Week, this conversation offers vital perspective on the humans behind the badges in America's most typical police departments. Subscribe to First Response for more stories that take you behind the scenes of modern policing and the real challenges facing those who serve.
Well, good morning. As I always say, when I kick these things off, the front line is loud, but the voice is behind it louder and the front line being the police front line, I'm Bob Plaschke. This is First Response. This is the number one podcast that takes you behind the badge the police officer's badge and uncovers real stories and experiences of first responders from all walks of life and the topics shaping public safety and policing today. Hopefully, if you're listening, hopefully you're curious about the human behind the hero, and these are true heroes. Hopefully you're curious about the human behind the hero, and these are true heroes and topics that are driving policing in the United States. This is kind of your hopefully your front row seat, I should say. So let's roll, let's get started. I should say that this podcast is sponsored by PepperBall, where I have the honor to serve as the chief executive officer. Pepperball creates non-lethal alternatives to guns that police use to keep themselves and the public they serve safe.
Bob Plaschke:So today we're joined by a deputy director of public safety of the Cottage Grove Police Department, Brad Petersen, and Brad has been on the force many years. We'll talk about that. Cottage Grove is based in Minnesota, outside of Minneapolis. It's 50 or 49 sworn officers. Brad, thanks for taking the time today. The first question I'll ask you is 50 officers I think you said 50,000 citizens you served. This feels like kind of you know the ultimate middle of the road, kind of you know Mayberry RFD in kind of present day. This is kind of the. This is a very typical police agency in the United States, would you say.
Brad Petersen:Yeah, I would say it's a very average. If you take a cross section of the United States, it's not too small, it's not too big, it's not inner city, it's not rural very average. So we get a little bit of everything, but it's not too busy and close to the metro, but not inner city either. So get a good, good mix and it's very average.
Bob Plaschke:Well, you know, I think that's you know what's interesting. I try to describe policing to my friends in the United States. You know, I tell them there's 18,000 agencies. You know I tell them there's 18,000 agencies and you know from all they know is watching, you know, kind of LAPD or Chicago PD or Blue Bloods, and you know there aren't any shows, frankly, for the what is absolutely the vast majority of police agencies of the 18,000, probably 16,000 agencies look like yours, right, they're in the suburbs, they're taking care of you know they have their share of crime. It's not particularly overwhelming and it's and it's, but it's. What police do every day is keep people in communities like Cottage Grove safe. You know what kind of policing, what, what's typically the, the, what, what do your officers face on a kind of a day-to-day basis? What, what do they do? Um, you know again, different than if you were in the downtown streets of uh, of New York city.
Brad Petersen:So fortunately, our officers don't spend most of their shift being reactive in nature, meaning that they're not responding to calls from dispatch or crimes in progress. The average officer on an average day might respond to five to ten calls from dispatch. Of course there's days that are slower, some days are busier, but that would be an average call load for an officer is about five to 10 calls per day. The rest of their shift is spent engaging with the community and being very proactive in nature, trying to prevent crime and establish relationships in the community and tending to the needs of our business districts, doing proactive patrols in neighborhoods, checking out our parks, all that kind of stuff to be present and visible in the community, engaging with our citizens. And of course there's some administrative time built in for writing reports and doing some trainings and other administrative tasks.
Bob Plaschke:But that's kind of what a typical day looks like for us other administrative tasks, but that's kind of what a typical day looks like for us. You know, we talk a lot about on this podcast. We talk a lot about mental health and some of the challenges that police officers face and you know, I think it's easy for those who listen to visualize what someone at NYPD might deal with. Right, because they're getting, as you said, there are a lot of reactive calls they're running into danger, that they know that they're running into danger. In that context, that's not what your officers face. Yet I would suggest that the mental health challenges that your officers face are just as significant as what somebody on LAPD would deal with. They're just different.
Bob Plaschke:This is, by the way, for folks listening, this is police week. This is a week that the United States takes out to honor the police force and policing in the United States. It's a big deal and a lot of the discussions in Washington this week are around mental illness and a mental challenge and mental health for policing. So this topic is near and dear to my heart and I know tears. Director Peterson, director Peterson. So in that context, you know, walk me through what in kind of an average USA police force which you guys are what kind of mental health challenges do you guys face and does your officers?
Brad Petersen:I'm not sure that it's a mental health challenge, but one of our challenges that we face is combating complacency. Because our community is so safe, because we don't spend most of our day responding to crimes in progress, it's easy to get lulled into a sense of complacency and false security, where we drop our guard and fail to recognize the potential dangers that we're encountering and that can be very dangerous for our officers, both physically and mentally. Right, you could walk into a situation not mentally prepared and it has tragic outcomes and that can be shocking to your mental health as well as your physical health. So we work very hard to keep our officers situationally aware and vigilant and we give them an incredible amount of training to stay on top of their game, of training to stay on top of their game so that they don't get complacent and can protect their safety as well as the safety of the citizens. So that's one aspect of it.
Brad Petersen:The other thing that we face is all of the same mental health challenges that every police officer everywhere in the country faces. We're all human. We have marital issues, we have substance abuse issues, we have the cumulative stress of the job itself, financial issues, you name it. Everything that average Americans face we face and sometimes we face, and sometimes, especially in the past, there was a stigma that prevented officers from seeking mental health help and so we just gutted that stress and it built up and it came out in not great ways, right Bubbles to the surface and if it's not dealt with then it can result in self-harm and self-destructive behaviors and can end careers, things of that nature. So one of the things that we do is we try to eliminate those stigmas or any barriers to seeking help. So we've done a lot of mental health awareness training, officer wellness awareness trainings, education, and really changed our culture so that our officers recognize signs and symptoms in each other and we can help each other out and at least recognize it in ourselves and seek help when we need it.
Bob Plaschke:You know, what's interesting is this notion of helping your officers stay vigilant and to stay aware, right, not get lulled. And what an interesting psychological challenge, right? As humans, we don't want to feel under stress, right? We prefer to be, you know, feel safe. Safe thing for your officers is to be, is to kind of, you know, psychologically fall into a pattern of of feeling safe, because, in effect, then they're caught off guard and then that's when probably bad things happen. So you, you, you're, effectively, you're asking them to stay, um, to, in effect, stay in a higher degree of tension and a higher degree of stress proactively to keep them in their in in a higher degree of tension and a higher degree of stress proactively to keep them and their citizens safe.
Brad Petersen:In a sense, yes, but we need to find that balance right. We don't want them hyper aware or being over vigilant and overreacting to a situation that doesn't work that high level of stress or reaction but they do need to maintain a minimal amount of awareness and vigilance and be able to respond appropriately to the threats. The key is reading the situation for what it is and responding reasonably to that situation.
Bob Plaschke:Well, you know, and what a tough balance to find, right. I mean, to your point, when you pull a car over you, you want to get out and and uh, and feel like you're safe. But to your point, you don't. You also don't want to be surprised by what might be inside and what might that that driver might, might present to you. So you have to, and, to your point, you don't want to overreact to someone who maybe is having a bad day. That's such a hard balance to find.
Brad Petersen:And how do you train to help officers find that balance? Part of it is and giving them enough repetitions in training to develop confidence, because I feel like when our officers are confident in their abilities they're less likely to react out of fear. So I want them to feel confident in their skills, knowing that they can handle any situation. Feel confident in their skills, knowing that they can handle any situation. They have the proper skills, policies, techniques, tools to deal with any situation. The other part is inoculating them, to stress, in the training environment. We don't want to end up in condition black because we're overwhelmed by a situation. I want them to experience these situations in the training environment and I want them to make those mistakes in the training environment and not in the real world.
Bob Plaschke:You know, it's such a to your point, it's such a fine balance to find, right To be aware enough and attuned not to be overly aware. And then to your point. You know, you, you know the police officers are brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, and they bring a host. They have a whole set of personal issues of which, for them, they have to deal with, but they can't really ever have a bad day, right? I mean? I mean, you know I can have a bad day in my job and I can apologize to my team afterwards. Having a bad day as an officer, you can't, I mean you can't. You know there's some pretty, you know significant consequences of having a bad day in front of a public.
Brad Petersen:Yeah, absolutely. I think the expectations that are placed upon our police officers are unreasonable, but it is what it is. We're expected to be perfect every day. That's not reality. I know it, you know it. But we need to give our officers the support and tools to help them be as perfect as they humanly can be on each and every day.
Bob Plaschke:Yeah, you know and you think about it it's. You know I'm biased, we serve Pepperball, serves police agencies across the country and they're our customers. But I think it is a bit unfair right that if you're not perfect you've failed, and you know, if you have a sick child at home that you still have to present a perfect face to the public. It's a high bar to ask and to ask of kind of a perfect execution and to your point, it's not realistic and so there's no question there. It's just kind of a statement, the I think the other thing that and maybe you tell me you've been on the force now, you've been in on in policing for 20 years. Is that right?
Brad Petersen:Yeah, about 20, going up on 22 years.
Bob Plaschke:I mean, has the nature of the job changed in that 20 years? Has it gotten tougher or?
Brad Petersen:maybe different. It's certainly changed. It's changed in a lot of ways. It's changed in some ways for the betterment of the profession. In other ways, I think, it's become harder. So I think now some of the things that we're doing better are being more transparent, more accountable, being more professional, providing better training and resources to our officers. Awareness on a host of different issues has increased, but I think the expectations placed upon police officers and departments, along with the scrutiny and lack of support in some areas has really made it challenging.
Bob Plaschke:You know it's, um, I was interviewing a sheriff the other day and, um, he said, like he goes in the old days, what he said he goes, um, I'd ask you, I'd tell you and then I'd make you. And you know it was relatively simple and very few times did I have to do it more than ask or tell. And he said now it's I and you know, and there was very limited accountability for making you do something, for making you do something and to your point. That's where policing, you know, has gotten has had some, some challenges in the past where police officers making folks comply in a way that was maybe unnecessarily rough or unnecessarily aggressive. He said, you know, now it's I have to ask you, I have to ask you again, I have to ask you a third time.
Bob Plaschke:You know it's a much more difficult challenge because you know the combination of changes in society, changing in policing, changing. You know some bad, you know some things that have happened in the past. The net of it is it's a much harder environment to do our work. So that was thing one, and then thing two is that we're asked to address a lot wider range of challenges. Before it was, you know, I'm trying to respond to a crime. Now I'm responding to mental illness, I'm responding to domestic disputes, I'm responding to homelessness a series of challenges that you know that I wasn't trained for when I first came up on the force.
Brad Petersen:Are those two fair comments? They are, and I would even say it's more challenging and complicated than how you stated it. Your analogy that we used to follow the principle of ask, tell, make, but now we have to ask, ask, ask, ask, ask again before we make. It's even more complicated than that because in some situations it might be appropriate to ask four, five, ten, twenty times and spend hours trying to de-escalate a situation to avoid a use of force encounter. But in other situations it might be completely unreasonable to ask at all. I should immediately jump into make mode. Right when there are immediate dangers to the community or my fellow officers or myself, I might skip the ask stage. And so for new officers coming into this profession to try and figure that out, it's not black and white, it's all shades of gray and it's very difficult to figure out. Well, the last call, you just told me I need to spend more time de-escalating. And now this call, you're telling me that I should have used force quicker. It's a very difficult skill to learn for new officers.
Bob Plaschke:And I think the range of topics that they have to engage in are now much wider, right? I mean, where before you probably, you know, maybe when you came up with the force, homelessness and mental illness was not as much of an issue. Now it's probably more. Maybe it's a significant minority of what you guys see.
Brad Petersen:Yeah, we're being asked to address all of the gaps in social services, in health care, in homelessness, you name it. We're the stopgap for all of it. Now to the point that we have a special team, even in cottage grove, that that is specifically geared towards and their sole purpose is to deal with those issues mental health, substance abuse, homelessness. They don't answer calls from from dispatch. They practically go out, engage in those vulnerable populations and try and mitigate their impact on the community and mitigate the call load on our patrol officers.
Bob Plaschke:And you know, and there you say, that's where I see the you know sun shining through the clouds is that policing, you know, policing agencies which have historically never been overfunded but have been challenged. There You're creatively trying to adjust, right? You're not? You're not putting your hands up and saying I can't do it. You're like you know, let's, let's create a special team that goes out and proactively tries to engage these challenged populations and try to get out ahead of these problems. And I think that's, you know, that's the positive out of this is that your policing is evolving to address these new challenges.
Brad Petersen:For sure, in some areas faster than others, but I'm proud of the fact that Cottage Grove has been very progressive and forward thinking and we look around at other communities and other parts of the country to see what challenges they're facing and how they're dealing with it. And we're very quick to adapt and luckily we have a supportive community and leadership here that funds us, supports us and allows us to stay ahead of the reform curve.
Bob Plaschke:You know and give me a sense of you know. Circling back to mental health and mental wellness, so to speak. I cite, and I'm going to continue to do this on every podcast the average American will experience somewhere between four to seven traumatic incidents in their life, traumatic being loss of a sibling or a parent or a child, or a divorce, something that is emotionally a significant injury, or a car accident. An average police officer over a 20-year career will experience somewhere between 200 to 400 of those incidents. No-transcript. How many is it? Do you take time off? Do you put people in classrooms? Is it individual counseling? What's the? What's the program that you've created at Cottage Grove for mental health and wellness?
Brad Petersen:health and wellness. So we've created a really comprehensive and holistic wellness program that really addresses all eight dimensions of wellness. But in regards specifically to mental health, we've done a lot of mental health awareness training and education. When there are critical incidents, we do critical incident debriefings. We provide free counseling to our officers and their immediate family Annually. We do mental health check-ins. We have a peer support team, we have a canine therapy, we have a chaplain program, a very robust mental health program here. So again, trying to get ahead of potential problems, address the fact that these traumas are real, they're unavoidable, healthy and successful in this career up until the point of retirement and beyond.
Bob Plaschke:You know, it's what they said the leading cause of death for retired police officers is suicide and that just kind of brings home the cumulative effect of this kind of stress. The cumulative effect of this kind of stress, and I should say, to be specific, the suicide rates amongst police officers, retired police officers, is twice the national average. So I can't say it's the leading cause of death, but I can say that suicide is a very significant challenge for police officers. You know, what's interesting to me is, you know you talk about canine therapy and chaplain support and peer group. These are investments that we don't make in the private sector.
Bob Plaschke:You know, I don't have a canine therapy for people at Pepperball. Maybe I should a pepper ball, maybe I should, but you know, but it makes perfect sense to me because the, the, the, the to have something go wrong in a, in a policing context, is, you know, the, the, the risk of, of and the consequence of something going wrong is so much more significant. How do you deal with that as as, as the? You know you deal with that as the number two guy in your organization. It must weigh heavily on your mind the responsibility of ensuring that the 49 folks underneath you are in a good position to do their work and that if something goes wrong, it could go wrong very badly. I mean, is that stress for you personally, just to kind of deal with?
Brad Petersen:Yeah, absolutely. I think about it every day. I think about it before I go to bed every night, and the only reason I can lay my head on the pillow and sleep every night is because I know in my heart that I'm giving my officers the best training resources, support, stack all the odds that I possibly can in their favor to do their job well, serve the community well, and that my officers themselves are going to be well. Obviously, we all have limited budgets and multiple competing priorities for our limited budgets, et cetera, but I know that I'm doing everything I possibly can for them. Sure, there are things that I'm still striving to achieve, that are still on my checklist, that I'm working towards, but I know that we're giving them everything we possibly can in this moment to do their jobs well and be happy and healthy.
Bob Plaschke:You know I've got two questions. The second to last question is I always ask the folks that are on this podcast if there was one thing that you'd like to tell people that are not in the profession, that haven't worn a badge. Tell them about the profession. Profession, you know something that you know, just that they may not be aware of or think about. What's the?
Brad Petersen:one thing that you'd like them to take away about policing and police officers. It's a great question. I actually never thought about that before, so you kind of put me on the spot, I guess I would say, acknowledging the fact that officers are humans and we're not perfect. But in most cases we have the best intentions and we're trying to do the best we can in a situation and, as long as we're doing it honestly, within the best of our ability and resources, a little bit of grace and forgiveness would be awesome.
Bob Plaschke:Yeah, I think that's right. A little bit of empathy in that context. The word grace you try to give it to yourself, you try to give it to your people in any organization and particularly in policing. In that context, given what's at stake and given what we're asking police officers to do, all right, director Peterson. The last question is we like to make a very small honorarium in your name to a charity of your choice. What's the charity that we can make a small donation for? Thanking you for taking the time on the podcast today.
Brad Petersen:Well, first, thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak out on the Office of Wellness topic. Secondly, thank you for the donation On the Office of Wellness topic. Secondly, thank you for the donation and I would love for that donation to go to the local Beyond the Yellow Ribbon organization, which supports our veterans and military families here in our community.
Bob Plaschke:Oh, so it's called. Beyond the Yellow Ribbon Is that a national organization?
Brad Petersen:It's for sure, statewide. Not sure if it's national, but it's called Beyond the Yellow Ribbon. So just about each community here in Minnesota has a yellow ribbon organization that supports their military community.
Bob Plaschke:What is the song? Tie a yellow ribbon around the old oak tree.
Bob Plaschke:For those who don't remember what the yellow ribbon is, it's a. I think it was after the Iraq war that we did that. That was that this became a big thing where you would tie a yellow ribbon when, yeah, first go for, first go for, and it was a, a way to acknowledge you know someone that was overseas and kind of you would. You would tie the ribbon around the tree and wait for them to come back. So for folks that don't know what that that is, for the younger folks.
Bob Plaschke:Thank you, director Peterson. We appreciate the time and and, and importantly, the commitment to your profession and the commitment to your people, to your officers, and we thank you. Thank you for taking the time with us. So you know, folks, as I try to reflect on Director Peterson's comments. You know, director Peterson's comments.
Bob Plaschke:You know it's easy for me to interview folks you know from the NYPD and talk about the challenges they face, because we can all visualize it, you know, and we can empathize to some degree with having to respond to constant crime and run into danger. Having to respond to constant crime and run into danger, I think what is harder to empathize with, but as equally important, is what the average police agency in the United States and the average officers deal with, and that is living in areas that are not as much crime and where the officers are more kind of proactive in their policing versus reactive. And yet they face different but similar challenges from a mental health perspective. Different but similar challenges from a mental health perspective. For them, it's how to stay aware and how to be ready for and how to be vigilant, not to be overly aggressive, not to look for trouble, but to make sure that if trouble unexpectedly shows up which it will once a year that they're ready and that they can respond. And you think about how difficult that challenge is, um, and and how you have to do it every day and that every day could be that. That day, um, and you know that your child is sick that day, or that you had a fight with your wife or you have some financial challenges. How do you not bring that into that day and how do you make sure that doesn't turn into an escalation or something that goes wrong that affects you and your career for the rest of your life. And I think that's Deputy Chief Petersen said.
Bob Plaschke:To give these officers grace, they're not perfect, they're just brothers, sisters. To give these officers grace, they're not perfect, they're just. They're brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, um sons and daughters. That and they'll, they'll have bad days, and yet we ask them to protect us, we ask them to go into danger for us. We have to give them the grace to know that they're not perfect, um, and we have to, we have to be empathetic to what they're going through, whether it be, you know, in the downtown streets of Chicago or in Cottage Grove Minnesota.
Bob Plaschke:So, um, uh, this is again Police Week. It's the chance for us to to remember and respect the policing over a million um sworn officers in the United States. Remember the, the more than 350 plus officers that were killed in the line of duty last year, and remember how brave and truly wonderful this industry is and these group of folks are. So my name is Bob Plaschke. I am the CEO of PepperBall. This is First Response, a look behind the badge. Thank you for taking the time and we'll see you on the next go around. Be safe out there.
